Ring Mod LFO question

edpoulsen · Post by **edpoulsen** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:25 am

So I've been doing some interesting stuff with my ringmod and by far my most favorite part of this pedal is modulating my guitar signal using the LFO. The other day I even managed to make it modulate my guitar's signal to sound like a sprinkler (wap--- wap---wap---wapwapwapwapwap; it makes a 'wap' sound b/c it's going through the LPF). I was just curious if there is anyway to sync the LFO rate with any sort of tempo? So if I program a drum beat or any a bass line can I make the LFO modulate my guitar's signal in time with my tempo? Any tips would be great. I have a MuRF, a Low Pass Filter and a Freq Box as well, I'm not sure if any of the outputs on the back of those could help set the rate of the LFO (if they did I'd still have the same problem of syncing that pedal with my tempo). Thanks!

EricK · Post by **EricK** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:05 am

A Midi to CV Converter is probably your best bet.

Since I started messing with the MicroMoog, I have noticed -and the Ring Mod especially shares this quality- that trying to manually sync LFO's is pretty hard. Especially when the tiniest bit of deviation whatsoever with the pot makes a vast difference.

For example, the freq pot on the ring mod.

I think one of these days Im going to try to rig up some precision potentiometers....something that would simulate 1 quarter turn being 1/16th of a turn on the freq input. I think a potentiometer like this will not only bring out the possibillities of the ringmod's freq, but make all lfo's a bit easier to sync together.

Eric

EMwhite · Post by **EMwhite** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:40 pm

Best way is to leverage a Multipedal and it's Midi sync'ed LFO feature, then plug one of the channels into the RingMod.

If your MurF is a Midi 105, you can do someting similar by sync'ing the Murf to Midi, then by carefully adjusting the Filter pattern and the audio level output, trick the Ringmod into thinking it's seeing an LFO pulse.

Otherwise, it's very difficult to sync a long running signal as mentioned by Eric. I have a delay pedal that has Tap tempo and I've been fairly successful at stomping out a beat that is close [enough] to a clock driven tempo (drum machine); but that's onl becuase it only repeats for x # of times across a few second; get something that is long running and you'll find that the drift really loses it's appeal.

willi · Post by **willi** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:01 pm

EMwhite wrote:I have a delay pedal that has Tap tempo and I've been fairly successful at stomping out a beat that is close [enough] to a clock driven tempo (drum machine); but that's onl becuase it only repeats for x # of times across a few second; get something that is long running and you'll find that the drift really loses it's appeal.

Neat trick mentioned about using the MuRF as an LFO. Have you tried using the drum machine output to trigger the tap tempo on your delay? You might have to mod the delay, but it should be possible.. going as far as using a relay triggered by the drum machine to trigger the tap tempo switch...

Cheers

eerock · Post by **eerock** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:18 am

I have an another question about the ring mod's lfo out. How much voltage it should supply?
I measured +-1V with regular mono patch cable. The amount knob doesn't have any effect for this, otherwise it works perfectly.
Shouldn't it be supplying 0-5V?

Thanks!

ferran · Post by **ferran** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:03 am

Well, I've been messing around with my new digital oscylloscope and I've testing the LFO out of my Ring Mod, (among other things

). My oscyllo shows an square wave of about 2,40 V. pp, or a triangle (not sine) about 2,05 V. pp (average values, not a great variation with frequency rate).
Also, I've found very interesting the Carrier Out, a beautiful triangle wave about 2,60 V. pp whose frequency varies up and down, with central freq of what you set in the corresponding knob.

I agree with you that I was too expecting louder levels of signal.

Hope it helps.

eerock · Post by **eerock** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:30 pm

ferran wrote:Well, I've been messing around with my new digital oscylloscope and I've testing the LFO out of my Ring Mod, (among other things ). My oscyllo shows an square wave of about 2,40 V. pp, or a triangle (not sine) about 2,05 V. pp (average values, not a great variation with frequency rate).
Also, I've found very interesting the Carrier Out, a beautiful triangle wave about 2,60 V. pp whose frequency varies up and down, with central freq of what you set in the corresponding knob.

I agree with you that I was too expecting louder levels of signal.

Hope it helps.

PP as in peak to peak? So there's nothing wrong with my Ring Mod if the peak voltage is around 1V?

An another thing I noticed when I noodled around with my MuRF and Ring Mod is that when I controlled the rate of the MuRF with the Ring Mod's LFO, the speed of the MuRF's rate drastically decreased. The LFO did modulate the speed but also narrowed it down. Is that normal? It sounded awesome when they were in sync, can't deny that, but the decrease of the rate speed was kinda bummer.

Thanks Ferran for the measuments!

ferran · Post by **ferran** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:32 pm

Hey there,

PP as in peak to peak?

Yes, i mean peak to peak.

So there's nothing wrong with my Ring Mod if the peak voltage is around 1V?

I think this is normal, at least my Ring Mod sounds good

An another thing I noticed when I noodled around with my MuRF and Ring Mod is that when I controlled the rate of the MuRF with the Ring Mod's LFO, the speed of the MuRF's rate drastically decreased. The LFO did modulate the speed but also narrowed it down. Is that normal? It sounded awesome when they were in sync, can't deny that, but the decrease of the rate speed was kinda bummer.

Sorry but I don´t have a MURF, so I can't test it, but this behavior doesn't seems normal.

Thanks Ferran for the measuments!

You're welcome, it was my pleasure. Cheers !

EMwhite · Post by **EMwhite** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:32 pm

willi wrote:
EMwhite wrote:I have a delay pedal that has Tap tempo and I've been fairly successful at stomping out a beat that is close [enough] to a clock driven tempo (drum machine); but that's onl becuase it only repeats for x # of times across a few second; get something that is long running and you'll find that the drift really loses it's appeal.
Neat trick mentioned about using the MuRF as an LFO. Have you tried using the drum machine output to trigger the tap tempo on your delay? You might have to mod the delay, but it should be possible.. going as far as using a relay triggered by the drum machine to trigger the tap tempo switch...

Cheers

I've been thinking about that. It's a good idea. I think the trick will be to treat the voltage which is a pulse as a trigger which clicks the relay just for a brief moment as tunable by something simple like a 555. Otherwise the relay will be held 'in' by the full pulse width which may or may not be a problem.

It would also be necessary to only allow the relay click for a brief moment (depending on tempo) such only 2 or 3 (depending on device) clicks get through. I have a T-Rex Replica which takes a moment to compute and set the tapped tempo and my Diamond ML II is a bit different. Luckily (your mod idea), I already have a 1/4" jack input for the tap tempo [factory mod].

I'll add it to my list to get to some day. Would be handy to have a small box that you could buy that would account for all of this.

jeepo · Post by **jeepo** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:24 pm

eerock wrote: An another thing I noticed when I noodled around with my MuRF and Ring Mod is that when I controlled the rate of the MuRF with the Ring Mod's LFO, the speed of the MuRF's rate drastically decreased. The LFO did modulate the speed but also narrowed it down. Is that normal? It sounded awesome when they were in sync, can't deny that, but the decrease of the rate speed was kinda bummer.

This is the how my murf works too. You can make the rate faster by mixing the lfo with a dc offset, then plugging that into the rate jack.

EricK · Post by **EricK** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:03 am

EM,

I was talking to Voltor awhile back about some extremely precise potentiometers for the 102 for Freq. Id love to get a couple and rig up some sort of breakout box with at least 2 of those special pots, but they are expensive!

latigid on · Post by **latigid on** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:43 pm

It may be possible to make a "fine tuning control" by using a regular pot with a parallel resistance, thereby decreasing the range. Plug into the Freq input, use the panel knob for coarse tuning, the external knob for fine. Keen? 5U panel with patch points?

MarbledMoog · Post by **MarbledMoog** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:00 pm

If you want to sync to a drumbeat in an analog way, you could have a second source of the drumbeat (just say a complete duplicate) playing, then rout that into the filter. Don't output the drum signal. Use the Env. Out on the filter and send it to your LFO control. That should get you something in sync with the beat. If you want to make the LFO more dynamic though you will have to mix some signals together. Lots of fun could be had with that.

Only problem is, sounds like you might need 2 filters if you want to run your guitar through it as well. You could do the drum thing with the Freqbox as well I think.

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