alternative tuning

[Niko]

After I've read an old article from Wendy Carlos the idea of alternative tuning came up to me.
With the MiniMoog D there was - theoretically - a possibility to achieve different tunings by tweaking the rear poties (actually not really recommended!).
But is there a way to tune the Voyager into different tunes e.g. Werckmeister, Kirnberger or phytagoraien, or Silbermann-Sorge etc.?

[bunnyman]

Check this thread here: http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopi ... highlight= It would be awesome to be able to switch tunings on the fly (but I guess that's one area where digital synthesizers have an advantage!).

-andrew bunny

[psicolor]

Nice topic! I tried microtunings with my dx7 some weeks ago and found it quite hard to PLAY music. I guess you need to practice VERY long in one specific tonality (and you should listen to music played in that tonality) to archieve good results. And if it then sounds good to you, it will still hurt others ears.

[Just Me]

Yep, those soothing sounds of Asian or Indian music in the background at the restaurant that set your teeth on edge! Korean or Bollywood movie music has the same pleasing tonality.

[Niko]

thanks a lot for the replies. Actually my wife always escapes from my room, closing the door and watching soaps whenever I create new fanatstic sounds with my Voyager and particular with my Theremin. This behaviour I've investigated already when I was a child and received wonderful sounds out of my short wave radio on the beach and my parents pushed me out of our sandburg...
Well, its my fate. And I cannot stop to hurt ears and teeth.

[Niko]

thanks again for the replies. Actually with alternative tunings I asked for a way to tune the 12 tones of the octave in a different scale. So no other division than by 12 would be needed, but the balance between the tones or semi-tones can vary with the type of scaling. Maybe the following wikipedia link is helpful?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_intonation

or in a german version with more graphical explanations

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reine_Stimmung

The question I have is whether there is a way, maybe with the Voyager Editor Software, to have access to the scale tuning?

[EricK]

This is when the Moog scaler/Programmer is needed.


Eric

[psicolor]

The question I have is whether there is a way, maybe with the Voyager Editor Software, to have access to the scale tuning?

As long as the voyager is an analog synth which uses exponenciator circuits to generate the pitch control voltage, it should be an immense effort to get a tuning different to the equal tuning.

I'm neither a mathematician nor an electro technican, so maybe i'm wrong. All I know about the techniques behind analog synthesis is from the book of the formant synthesizer.

[Niko]

o.k. it seems to be quite difficult to change the scale with a Voyager. I've a ribbon controller for my MiniMoog D. Can I connect it to the Voyager as well?

[latigid on]

You can certainly connect a ribbon controller to the Voyager's pitch CV.

However, to get unequal temperament with the Voyager is a very difficult thing. This is because the voltage difference between octaves on the keyboard is 1V, always, and the voltage is scaled equally between the twelve notes (in the Western Scale) of this octave.

I've vaguely heard of MIDI workarounds, where a note on message is coupled with a pitch bend message for microtonal tuning. There might be some way to implement this on the Voyager for different tunings, although it would have to operate in local off mode as to not be affected by the keys played.

[latigid on]

And here we go:

http://www.h-pi.com/TBX1intro.html




They also have hardware keyboards/software/VST's etc.

[EricK]

Just off the top of my head, what would happen if you use the Voyager's Attenuated pitch output back into the pitch input?

If I wanted to generate quartertones on a 921 Osc, thats exactly what I would do.

EricK


Edit:
Well I just tested this and it works well, trying to play "mary had a little lamb" on the black keys with only quartertones was interesting, it sounded like I was in a Chitrali Bazaar.


I then saw that you didn't want any divisions other than 12, but at least we know that this will work.

So it sounds to me like you are wanting a quantizer.

[Niko]

yes, I was looking to get a free relation between the 12 tones. So a quantizer maybe the right approach. Or, again my old ribbon controller, but here I need to find a solution to get power for it. I could bring the D cheek to cheek to the Voyager in order to use the power plug from the D, the cable for the power of the ribbon controller is quite short.
Actually I would prefer to have a repeatable solution, so a keyboard is preferable, the ribbon requires a lot of attention and concentration (it is "very" analog).

[EricK]

I don't know if your interests are with modular synthesizers, but you can go this route, and this is one of the best quantizers that I have seen, reccomended by another member here.

Modcan Quantizer $495.50http://www.modcan.com/bseries/scales.html
Scales: 47+1 scales in 3 banks of 16.
Bank selection is accomplished with panel toggle switch.

Bank A
None 2mV steps
Semitone 1/2 tone steps
Major 1,2,3,4,5,6,7
Minor (Harmonic) 1,2,b3,4,5,b6,7
Dorian 1,2,b3,4,5,6,b7
Phrygian 1,b2,b3,4,5,b6,b7
Lydian 1,2,3,#4,5,6,7
Aeolian 1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7
Mixolydian 1,2,3,4,5,6,b7
Wholetone 1,2,3,#4,#5,b7
Blues 1,b3,4,#4,5,b7
Diminished 1,2,b3,4,b5,b6,6,7
Augmented 1,#2,3,#4,#5,7
Pentatonic neutral 1,2,4,5,b7
Fourths 1,4,b7
Octaves 1


Bank B
Major 1,3,5
Major6 1,3,5,6
Major7 1,3,5,7
Maj7b5 1,3,b5,7
Minor 1,b3,5
Minor6 1,b3,5,6
Minor7 1,b3,5,b7
Sus4 1,4,5
Sus2 1,2,5
Sus4 Sus2 1,2,4,5
Augmented 1,3,#5
Diminished 1,b3,b5
Diminished 7th 1,,b3,b5,6 (bb7)
7 Sus4 1,4,5,b7
Min 7 b5 1,b3,b5,b7
Min 7 #5 1,b3,#5,b7


Bank C
CHORDS

Algerian 1,2,b3,4,#4,5,b6,7
Altered 1,b2,b3,b4,b5,b6,b7
Aux Diminished 1,2,b3,4,#4,#5,6,7
Balinese 1,b2,b3,5,b6
Byzantine 1,b2,3,4,5,b6,7
Diatonic 1,2,3,5,6
Spanish 1,b2,3,4,5,b6,b7
Double Harmonic 1,b2,3,4,5,b6,7
Hindu 1,2,3,4,5,b6,b7
Sixtone Symmetric 1,b2,3,4,#5,6
Nine Tone 1,2,#2,3,#4,5,#5,6,7
Overtone_Dominant 1,2,3,#4,5,6,b7
Pelog 1,b2,b3,5,b6
Prometheus 1,2,3,b5,6,b7
Enigmatic 1,b2,3,#4,#5,#6,7
Octatonic 1,b2,b3,3,b5,5,6,b7

[latigid on]

The quantizer will be great for e.g. keeping a step sequencer in tune.

But the OP said he wanted to play in different "tunes". The quantizer won't affect the scale, every semitone interval will have the same difference in frequency. I.e. you are quantizing different modes of the Western Scale.

So, if you want to only do microtonal tuning, try the inverted pitch CV patch or use the ribbon controller or the pitch wheel.

If you want unequal temperament or "just intonation" etc. then you need a device that adjusts the actual scale of the keyboard (or adjust the scale trimpots inside the Voyager/Model D).